Hey guys! Sorry this took so long. First off, I wanted to thank both of you for wanting to talk about this movie with me: David for helping me set this up, and Shannon for wanting to join in on the fun.
So, looking at both of your reviews, I can tell that I am outnumbered.
It seems that you both at least enjoyed this movie, and I gave it the second lowest rating I could possibly give it. So I wanted to know some real quick general thoughts about BvS to start things off?
Well, I'll start by saying what I have said many times before: I am extremely biased by my love for Superman. That being said, I tried to be as impartial as I could with the film.
My final voting of a "B" rating came down to this: Was I entertained while watching it, and would I watch it again? Yes and yes.
I agree with you David. Those are the two main factors that I look for when choosing a rating for movies. I gave it a "Liked It" because of all the action packed scenes i.e. Fighting, explosions, superhero stuff. Though it was fairly long, it still kept my attention and left me wanting more.
Steve, what made you give this movie such a low rating?
The biggest reason was because of how disjointed the entire movie felt. There was no flow to the movie whatsoever, and some scene transitions felt so choppy and out of place. There was also just so much useless nonsense in the movie. I guess I should have expected it from the likes of Zack Snyder, but there were so many dream sequences that served no real point in the grand scheme of the movie aside from being artsy (I will happily be specific if you want).
And the dialogue was just really bad. This biggest example of this was Jesse Eisenberg, who for some reason is portrayed as a quirky madman. That one scene where he's giving that speech for the fundraiser was cringe-city. These are the biggest problems I have. I have others. But do either of you disagree at all?
I know what some of the scenes you are talking about, but I am glad they were in there because I don't really know anything about Batman's life or background story. And I agree with you that it was a little strange the way that this new Lex Luthor is being portrayed, but I found it pretty entertaining. I would need to watch it again to make comments on the fundraiser speech. I didn't think the flow was too bad, it was easy for me to follow along I remember. David, what say you?
I will say this, I agree with Steve that a lot of the movie had disjointed moments. This came from several things. First, it was universe building on the fly. They are trying to introduce Justice League characters and a new take on Batman all at once. It's a lot to ask of any film, even one that was nearing three hours. I personally think most of that choppiness came from the fact that stuff was left on the cutting floor, but the BluRay release may prove otherwise.
As I stated in my original post, I enjoyed Jesse Eisenberg as Lex. Though far from the traditional Lex in the comics or even past movies, I enjoyed the fact they took a risk on making him more current. It definitely made him memorable if anything, and I think with more focus on him as opposed to setting the heroes up for a fight, he could have been even better.
Speaking to the dream sequences, most of them didn't bug me.... Until the ones with
A) the terrible new Flash suit and
B) the one that was a set up for Darkseid in future movies (Batman doesn't use guns!!!!).
Steve, was there anything you did like? Acting performances, set pieces, score, etc?
There were a few things I liked (which is why I didn't give it a 1 out of 10). I thought Jeremy Iron's Alfred was pretty great, but I am fully convinced that if they put him in the movie more, he would have been compromised like everyone else. Aside from that, I thought all the fighting scenes involving Batman fighting multiple people were entertaining and satisfying. And honestly, I can say that almost all the performances in this movie weren't bad. I thought Ben Affleck as batman was fine. I thought Henry Cavill as Superman was fine. It was the sequence of events and the way they were executed that really crippled this film.
I agree that Irons was a strong point. His humor helped buoy the film at its darkest moments. I can't really see how they could have naturally fit him into the film more anyways. I think the best thing that Snyder has brought to DC is his action scenes. He truly knows how to make a superpower lead being seem strong and fast. The original tag to the first Superman movie was "You'll believe a man can fly" but I will give credit here. Snyder really makes me believe it. And it of course helps that Cavill really looks the part.
Um... Henry Cavill... Yes. It was pretty hard for me to pay attention to any of the other actors because I was so focused on him, though I'm sure everyone you guys have mentioned did a fantastic job in their roles. I was watching Wonder Woman the other day... I swear Lynda Carter and Gal Gadot could be related... The look so similar! At least I think so. I'm pretty excited for her film next year, along with the Justice League that's dropping next years as well. Superhero movies are great!
Ha! I cannot say that Cavill has the same charms on me, but I get where you are coming from. Personally, I do not think he did a fantastic job, but I give the majority of the blame for that on Snyder.
Which brings me to my next point, David, I disagree with you in that I do not think Snyder did well at all. I think his direction is what caused this movie to blunder. If it was a perfect world, I would see to it that Zack Snyder never made a major blockbuster again, and Cavill and Affleck would continue their roles as Superman and Batman... preferably with Affleck as the director.
I'm gonna let you guys take the lead on this...
I know that Batman is probably going to be in Affleck's hands going forward, and I agree that it is a good thing. I think Snyder has a good grasp on action and movement, which at times (NOT always) translates to aesthetics as well. This shows in 300 and Watchmen, and at times in Man of Steel and BVS.
I do agree that he shouldn’t be in charge of the blossoming DC universe though. The man has lost the ability to tell a good story, despite how pretty it may be at times.
Oh jeez, I forgot this guy was behind 300 and Watchmen. I actually think those are good movies.
Anyway, so I wanted to ask you about one scene that I could not get over…
The Martha scene…
When Superman tells Batman, "You're killing Martha!!" Personally, I have my opinions about that entire scene. But what did you think of that exchange?
I didn't like it because it doesn't make sense. Why not start the conversation that way without the violence? Plus I mean, come on.... Would that really be enough to get a steroid-hulked Batman to quit it? I doubt it.
I thought it was funny. Guess they thought about throwing some humor in there, though it was poorly placed. But it was probably another thing for them to show the "link" between the two of them.
Shannon, I agree that it was funny, but I do not think that was the intention. It would have been funny on its own if Superman just said that, but they also threw in the corny flashbacks and Batman snarling at Superman for more clarification. I was laughing so hard.
But to get back to David's point, I was thinking the same thing too. I was really hoping Superman would just act like a normal person and try to EXPLAIN what was happening to Batman, especially because his mother's life is on the line, but instead Superman is extremely cryptic with his wording, and it was just a really awful spectacle.
They had to get them to fight somehow right? In the comics I believe it is a bit less cheesy, with Superman being ordered by the government to stop Batman, then the Bat freaking out and asking Oliver Queen to shoot Superman with a Kryptonite arrow to weaken him, despite the fact Supes just saved the world from a nuclear warhead. So maybe more convoluted.
I know they have to fight somehow, but I feel like the movie should be responsible in making the reasoning a lot less forced. Character's reasonings for things should feel natural instead of obligatory.
Well, the comics do sound a lot better than the movie then.
Well I guess we can wrap it up here then. I guess we can end with this question: In ten words or less, what was the best part of the movie?
Shannon: Henry Cavill.
David: Punches that actually look super-powered.
Steve: I liked when it was over… No, in all honesty, I'm glad Ben Affleck was good as Batman.
Thanks again guys!
Shannon & David: Thank you!! This was fun!
For David's original thoughts on BVS, click here. For Shannon's, click here.
To see more from fellow blogger Steve, check out his website!
David and Shannon write about movies.